HomeMy WebLinkAbout1950 10-31 CC ADJ MIN227
National City, California, October 31, 1950
Adjourned meeting of October 17, 1950, of the City Council
was called to order by Mayor Clinton D. Matthews at 7:30 P.M.
o'clock.
MAYOR MATTHE7S:- Will the meeting please come to order.
May we hove the roll call, please.
CL'ZRK: Carrigan: Here. Clarke, Aye. Curry: Here.
Hart: Aye. Matthews: Here.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: The reading of the minutes of the previous
meeting.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I move the minutes be dispensed with.
COUNCILMAN HART: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded. All in
favor of the motion say "aye".
UNANIMOUS
MAYOR MtTTHEWS: Carried.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: The reeding of the bills.
CLERK:
General Fund 41,306.54
Capital Reserve 606.86
Comm. Redevelopment 3,392%15
Library Fund 24.68
Perk M & I Fund .81
Retirement Fund 5,211.37
Stroot Fund .82
Payroll Fund 16 789.12
TOTAL . . . . . . $27032.35
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Move that the bills be allowed and
warrant ordered drawn for same.
COUNCILMAN HART: Second.
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ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIALS present: Alston, Sullivan, darner,
Oeutereaux.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded. Roll cell,
please.
CLERK: Carrigan: Aye. Starke: Aye. Curry: Aye.
Hart: Aye. Matthews: Aye. Carried, so ordered.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: May we have a Resolution authorizing
payment from the Capital Outlay Fund.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: (RESOLUTION NO. 535E) BE IT R'SOLVED by the City Council of the City of National City, California,
that the following sum incurred for Capital expenditures be
paid out of the Capital *reserve Fund:
Pate Construction Company A606686 10% due lateral
sewer Job #4.
COUNCILMAN HART: I move the bill be allowed.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It is a Resolution. Is there a secondt
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEWS; Roll call, please.
CL!RK: Carrigan: Aye. Clorke: Aye. Curry: Aye.
Hart: Aye. Matthews: Aye. Carried, so ordered.
MAYOR MATTHW"S: Are there any oral communications be come
before the Council tonight?
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Meyor, I think that at this time
I would like to point out to the citizens of National City
the importance of getting out and voting. As far as the
way they vote is concerned, let their conscience be the
guide, but please get out and vote. The other thing I
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would like to say is I have had a letter handed to me
addressed to Mr. Barnes. There is quite a lot in it. I
think each one of the Councilmen got a copy of it. As you
know, we had quite a session one way or the other with Mr.
Barnes and have been very patient with all he has hed to
say. But I think it is about time we done something es a
Council to put Mr. Barnes in his place and let him realize
that these accusations and insinuations and things that he
feels that he is privileged to stand up before the public
both
and accuse this Council/individually end collectively, as
far as I am concerned personally I do not intend to stand
for it. He has made an insinuation in one item here, item
10, concerning my. using his words, Councilmen Clarke's
forced interruption endorsed by the Mayor. I again claim
this is a breach of privilege. And the Council has such
arbitrary powers as to rm ke their own rules as they go along
isn't that very Russian. I feel that that man should be put
in his place and be made to realize that he cannot come up
here and make such statements as that. He had an opinion
end ruling by the City Attorney pointing out to him that
this Council, what they have done and whet they did that
night that he refers to is well within the law and well
within their right and authority to do so. If he feels
is
that such actions are Russian ho/making a very grave mis-
take. He auoted Roberts Rules of Order. If he knew Roberts
Rules of Order, that item 10 is asinine. The Rulos he said
there, I repeat, are asinine. He doesn't know what he 1s
am
talking about. As far as //concerned if he comes up hdre
again I am going to do something about it. I think it is
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within the power of the Mayor of this Council to prevent such
things happening, and far es I am concerned personally I will
give the Chair my whole hearted support having these Council
meetings run according to parliamentary procedure and Roberta
Roles of Order, and for the benefit and interest of everyone.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Clarke. Any other comments
on this particular item.
COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Mayor, I will also give you my support
on this.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: If there is no other discussion we will then
proceed with the next item.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I would like to hear from the Chairman of
our Slogan Contest, Mr. James. I understand that we have a
slogan for National City now and I know that those fellows
worked very hard. Will you give us a little dope on how you
came to your conclusion?
MR. JAMES: Well, we just, the most successful slcgan contest
was 3ust finished today. Over 700 slogans were submitted by
the people of National City, and I think from that, you re-
alize we had plenty of material to chose from, in 700. They
ranged from the sublime to tho ridiculous, one or two were
really ridiculous, although we had s lot of very very good
ones. Ir. picking out a slogan '.:,e Committee thought they
would like to, the Committee carried these things in mind,
and these ^sere the points they more or less judged on. They
wanted something that would attract the attention of the
passerby, that would catch their eyes es they passed through
town, something that was appropriate, that was really truth-
ful, and something that mould last for a good enough time
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because once it is put on a sign, brochures or anything like
that, naturally it will lest for e long time. Something
that wes unique, something that no other City, a slogan that
no other City was using as far as we knew. Something thot
on
wos short, easy to reed because when you put it/a sign on
the highway the cars pass, it must be short words, easy to
reed words end easily understood words, and something that
would look well and would tie in with tho brochure that the
Chamber of Commerce has now in the rough draft state. I
think we found one, es I said, we had the 700 slogans and
from day to day the Committee judged them, eliminating all
but one or two each day, after that the one or two they
preserved each day they typed on to a master sheet and from
that the final selection wee made, end finally came up with
this for the slogan, and it will have National City preceding
of course. Notional City, Bey City of Balmy Breezes. That
slogan was submitted by Miss Sevener who is a nurse et the
Paradise Valley Sanitarium. I think she has been notified
of it and thet she is ouite happy. I hope that meets with
your approval and that it does a good job for the City. I
would like to say that I think thet a greet deal of the
success of the contest is due to the fine support received
by the National City News, that certainly helped a lot that
little entry blank on the top of the front page each week.
MAYOR M2TT EWS: Thank you, Mr. Janes. I think that I can
speak for the Council and expressing the Council's appreciat-
ion to your Committee and to the Chamber of Commerce and to
the National City News for the help you gave us in finding
this slogan. We think that it is a very good one. We will
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now proceed with our signs and get them up as soon as
possible. Any other.
COUNCILMAN CL/RKE: Mr. Mayor, I would like to move that
this Council go on record by having the Manager compile a
letter to the chamber rf Commerce and the Committee of which
Mr. James is a ea tuber appreciating their work end efforts
in handling this slogan content and deciding the winning
slogan.
MAYOR MATTHEwS: Is there a second?
COUNCILMAN CURRY: And also include the News?
COUNCILMAN HART: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEwS=, It has been moved and seconded. All in
favor of this motion say eye. UNANIMOUS. Opposed, so
ordered.
MAYOR MsTTHE'9S: Are there any other oral communications?
Or any further comments? If not we will proceed with the
unfinished business, reedln' of Ordinances.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: We have the second reeding of the Sub-
division Ordinance. Do you wish the heading only be read?
COUNCILMAN CLIME: I move the heading only be read.
COUNCILMAN HART: I second it.
MAYOR MATTHEgS: It has been moved and seconded. Roll cell.
CLERK: Carrigan: Aye. Clarke: Aye. Curry: Aye. Hart:
Aye. Matthews: Aye. Carried, so ordered. Proceed.
CITY CLERK ALSTON. (0'W INANCE NO. 803) AN ORDINANCE
PROVIDING REGULATIONS FOR THE SUBDIVISION OF LAND, FOR THE
DEDICATION OF STREETS, AND FOR THE AI^PROVAL OF MAPS THEREOF
IN THE CITY OF NATIONAL CITY AND RE'ELLING ORDINANCE NO. 560
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1
OF THE ORDINANCES 0P THE CITY OF NATIONAL CITY, CALIFORNIA.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Meyor, I move the adoption.
COUNCILMAN CURES: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded. Roll call.
CLERK: Carrigan: Aye. Clarke: Aye. Curry: Aye. Hart:
Aye. Matthews: Lye. Carried, and so ordered.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Next item.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: We have the second reading of the
Sunny Knolls Ordinance Annexation.
COUNCILMAN HART: I move that just the heading be reed.
COUNCILMAN CUTIY: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded. Roll call,
please.
CLERK: Corrigan: Aye. Clarke: Aye. Curry: Aye. Hart:
Aye. Matthews: Aye. Carried.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: (ORDINANCE NO. 804). AN ORDINANCE
DISAPPROVING THE ANNEXATION TO THR CITY OF NATIONAL CITY,
CALIFORNIA OF CERTAIN UNINHABITED TERRITORY, IN THE COUNTY
OF SAN DIEGO, STATE OF CALIFORNIA, DESIGN!TED AS "SUNNY
KNOLLS".
MAYOR MATTHEWS: We have had the majority of people approv-
ing?
COUNCILMAN HART: This is disapproving.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Disapproving Sunny Knolls. Do you wish
to adopt this Ordinance?
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I mcve the adoption.
COUNCILMAN HLRT: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded. Roll call.
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CLERK: Carrigan: Aye. Clarke: Aye. Curry: Aye. Hart:
Aye. Matthews: Aye. Carried, so ordered.
MAYOR TTHEWS: Next item.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council,
on the next item of "Fisher", 52 percent of the property
owners have expressed their written approval, however there
is still a block cf owners who have not registered their
approval or disapproval, I would like to ask that you put it
over one more week.
COUNCILMAN HART: I move it be held over another week.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Second.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: To the 8th of November.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: 8th of November. It has been moved end
seconded. All in favor of the motion make it known by
saying aye. UNANIMOUS. Carried, so ordered.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Next item.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: we have a communication from the Church
of the Nazarene addressed to the City Council. Deer Mrs.
Sullivan and Honirable Council Members: On the agenda for
the council's disposition at the October 31st session there
is a matter of a petition from a Mr. Paul A. Forqueran.
This petition requests the zoning ordiance variance to allow
the Church of the Nazarene to build a permanent parsonage
dwelling at the corner of Fourth and Norton in National City,
for temporary use of the church as a meeting place. At a
regular meeting of the congregation of the Church of the
Nazarene it was unanimously voted tc withdraw our case in
recognition of the wishes of the citizens in the immediate
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vicinity of the above mentioned p,operty who at a previous
hearing of the city planning commission ma de known their
wishes in objecting to the intentions of the Church of the
Nazarene. ''He therefore respectfully request that if in
keeping with Council policy you expunge the matter from
your agenda. Your kindness t, us, your long suffering
patience, end unusual fairness in action upon all matters
which it has been our privilege to witness in the Council
sessions is deserving of the highest commendation. May we
express our thanks and appreciation for your assistance to
cur new organization and we pledge to you our boat in con-
tributing to the progress and prosperity of a city we have
in a few short months learned to appreciate much. Very
respectfully yours, Edwin W. Moffitt, Minister, Hortense
P. Harris, Secretary, and Paul A. Forqueran, Petitioner.
COUNCILMAN HART: I move that the application be withdrawn.
COUNCILMAN CLARKS: Mr. Mayor, before we do that, didn't we
lay this application over from the last meeting.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Yes,
COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Clarke, I asked that he go out and
cheek this request and see what the people had signed
objected to building a church there, and they did that
end there was only ono that thought or had any mind of
changing end he wasn't sure, so they thought in tern that
they would withdraw their erplicetion.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: They would rather look for and her
location. Is there a second to the notion.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I'll second it.
MAYOR MLTTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded. All in
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fever of the motion say aye. UNANIMOUS. Opposed, carried,
so ordered.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Next item.
CITY CIE RK ALSTON: On the Planning Commission report they
recommended the granting of Petition No. 374 of Gertrude
Drost, requesting a permit to build an additional building
on property et 1606 Grove Street, requiring a lot size
variance. The Planning Commission recommends that this
petition be granted.
MAYOR M&ATTHEWS: Do you want us to wait for the Resolution
or do you. Isn't this the property where the lady wanted to
build in the beck yard, on the corner.
CCUNCILMAN HART: It faces on 16th Street. I think you end
I saw the property) end Mr. Curry also. Her husband is in
the Navy and she hes this corner lot end she is living on
the front of the lot.
MAYOR M4TTHEWS: And it would be back far enough so that
with the widening and paving of 16th Street it would not
interfere.
COUNCILMAN HART: It would be back as far as the other house.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Mayor, has this been investigated and
approved by the Planning Commission?
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Yes. Do you wish to. If there is no ob-
3ection,we will lay it over until the Resolution is prepared.
Unless there is any other discussion. Now, we will proceed
with the next item.
CITY CLERK ALSTCN: The next Item is the 40 hour week.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Do you have any further information, Mrs.
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Sullivan, on the 40 hour week.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council,
as you recall it is necessary for the Civil Service Commiss-
ion tc make a recommendation either to amend the rules or
to refuse to amend the rules. I have discussed it with
members of the Commission who have been exceedingly busy
with examinations and they have suggested that they would
like to meet and go over the financial, the amount of money
involved and I have offered to write them a letter but they
would like to discuss it, and if that suits you I will
proeeed in that fashion. The amount of money involved es
far as the 40 hour week is concerned, as of the employees
now with no more going to the Military Service, with no in-
creases or no changes for the rest of the fiscal year, the
estimate of S14,000.00 as the cost is accurate but it can't
be accurate to the point that you can rely on exactly that
amount of money. We may lose additional employees, we may
have to heve additional employees depending on the extensions
of sewers end other items in your policy, so that the only
estimate that can be accurately made is the payroll as of
now with that personnel. If it is your nleasure for me to
confer with the Civil Service Commission I shall do so.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Mayor. I think we should go into
this. It seems tc.me it has been granted ercund quite a
lot and everybody seems to take the attitude "let George
do it". Now, whose responsibility is it to get this thing
started?
MAYOR MATTH 'VS: I believe that either the Girt' Service
Commission or the Council can request action and the Council
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838
has asked for the facts and figures so has the Civil Service
Commission, and we would rather definitely have a recommen-
dation from them before we act on it.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: What I am getting at, Mr. Mayor, they
ask us, we ask them and neither one of us gets anythT$,
at least I haven't seen anything. I just wonder how long
this thing is going on. We certainly have a responsibility
to do something about it. Is it possible to get this thing
settled one way or another by a Special Meeting if necessary
with the Civil Service Commission and this Council.
MAYOR MWTTHEWS: Did the Civil Service Commission mean a
joint meeting or do they wish to discuss it with the Manager.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: i am certain they would be happy to
have the Council there. As they told you they wrote a letter
sometime ago pointing out that it was more a finanetellyl matter
exac
than a policy matter. You cannot tie it down es to/how much
it is going to cost. Let me explain what I mean by that. In
the Sanitation Department, fcr example, if we have no in-
crease in the number of houses to be served and we did not
need any additional service we could manage to readjust hours
of the crew in order to avoid putting on additional men. If
the number of houses increase, end there is every indication
that they will, then we will have tv have more help, which
means that with a 40 hour week we add additional employees
in order to make up the income paid for it, and on the other
hand it will take additional people in order to make the
schedule, so that it is a little difficult to say that it
will cost exactly so much for the rest of the fiscal year,
and no more. We can anticipate two things, one is increase
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in service and the other is loss of personnel to the Military
Service.
MAYOR M.ATTHEWS: Do you have any objection to having a joint
meeting with the Civil Service? Lest time there were only 3
members who could make it and if in the very near future we
can get a meeting and have ell members of the Council end
Civil Service present, and if the Manager's office can get as
much, of this information down in black end white as possible
we can all have a copy and really settle down end have a die•
cussion and decide whether we went to go ahead or not.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, Mr. Mayor, It seems to me we should
certainly do something along those lines, for after all it
has been a reouGst from the employees for this 40 hour week
and the previous Council to this one had already passed it
but not in the proper manner and it is not exactly legal
the 'way it was laid over, and it is up to us now to do some-
thing one way or the other. There is no use shutting our
eyes to the feet, we either have to establish a 40 hour week
or we have to present something to the Civil Service Commiss-
ion and the employees on a definite basis that we do not went
it. It is either one thing or the other. I believe the
sooner we get this thing settled the better it is going to
be for everybody.
COUNCILMIN CIRRIGIN: It the meeting that we had with the
Civil Service Commission, I think Mr. Hart and Mr. Clarke
were the only two that were absent, it was decided amongst
us et the time that the information would be given to them
end that we would talk it over with them and then the Council
and the Commission would go to the employees end discuss it
with them, end that is the way it was left.
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HAvOR MPTTHTwS: Well if you want to nano tho dato. Mrs.
Sullivan, when would be the best time to moot with theca.
I am sure we will all try to make it.
CITY M1'N1!G'R SULLIVAN: We have a meeting on the 8th, if
you went to meet either before or after the meeting.
CCTYNCILM'N H'IT: After the meeting.
CITY M!WGER SUT.LI 'N. ^fter the meeting, the Civil corvico
Connlsaion can moot with you after the meeting.
M'vOR MATTH WS: We can make it at say 8:30 and try to keep
the agenda down. Is that alright with everyone? What day
is it? wednesday. The next meeting is the 8th. About 8:30
then we will plan on having the meeting. The next item of
business.
COUNCILMAN CLARKS: Mr. Mayor, did you want to take up
the Resolution
MAYOR MATTHEWS: If you are ready for that.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: (RESOLUTION NO. 5353) Be it resolved by
the City Council rf the City of Netional City as follows:
That e special zone variance be granted to Gertrude Brost
for the purpose of building an additional building on proper-
ty et 1606 Grove Street, National City, California. Said
property described as Lot T, Block 3, Lincoln Acres Orchard.
Thet said permit is granted upon the conditions and recommen-
dations of the City Planning Commission as hereinafter set
forth:
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Why are we granting these special zone
permits?
ATTORNEY WARNER: The application saye: I ask that a var-
241
lance be granted so that I may build en additional house
on this lot complying in all respects with the R-1 Zone
with the exception of shortage in Lot area, 10,000 feet
now being required. There are two houses on the same lot
apparently. This particular lot has an area of 9,012.25
feet.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Has it been posted by the Planning
Commission. The area was posted.
ATTORNEY WARNER: A hearing was held on Petition No. 374
of Gertru'e Drost, requesting a permit to build an additional
building on property et 1606 Grove Street; requiring a lot
size variance. The Planning Commission recommends that this
petition be granted.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: There is no one in the audience to object?
There is almost enough space for two houses without a zone
variance. It seems that we have in the past granted a zone
variance to build a duplex, two unite on one 5,000 square
foot lot. I went out and looked et the property and I see
no objection. It is a corner lot end the house in the back
of the lot would face on l6th Street the house on the front
faces on Grove, so there is ample space there for two houses,
COUNCILMANI CARRIGAN: Well it isn't that so much. The Ord-
inance calls for 10,000 square feet, here you are granting
a special zone variance for less footage. What good is the
Ordinance and what would r-revent anyone else for asking for
the same thing, and why shouldn't anyone else be entitled to
it. Why shouldn't the Ordinance be emended to 9,000.
COUNCILMAN CLARKS: Mr. Mayor, that Ordinance calls for
10,000 feet.
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MAYOR MATTHEWS: 10,000. 5,000 feet for one unit In R-1 Zone.
If it is R-2 Zone you can build two houses.
ATTORNEY WARNER: I gather from the. I don't like to interr-
upt your dismission: but I gather from what the Planning
Commission says there it wee an R-2 Zone and was made an
R-1 Zone probably by reason having been R-2 this one house
was built on this big lot.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: There Is also a row, as I recall it, of
very small houses next door to this, there are about four
very small houses which cuts down somewhat the value there
and if it was a real high class residential district I think
we should think very carefully before granting a zone variance
for two houses on one lot.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Mayor, 1 have inspected this property
and I see no reason for not granting special permission,
therefore I move that permission be granted.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: I second it.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It hes been moved end seconded. Any further
discussion.
COUNCILMAN CARRIOAN: I am not questioning whether the build-
ing might or might not be a good thing, but I am talking
about the flexibility of the Ordinance. If you are going
to have en Ordinance what good is it if you are going to
throw the thing out the window et ovary whipstitch and make
special zone variances. If one men is entitled to it every
men in town is entitled to it.
COUNCILMAN HART: The application, Mr. Carrigan, don't accept
S$25.00 in good money to see if they can got it. They are
not going to put up $25.00 if they cannot even apply for It
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because they ere wasting Honey.
COUNCILMAN CARRIOAN: I haven't made up my mind on anything
yet. I don't even know where it is. That is the point I sin
trying to make, if the Ordinance requires 10,000 feet, ere
we going to cut it to 9,000 then we better amend the Ord-
inance end make it 9,000e The first thing ycu know they
will went 8,000 and then you are right beck in the same
position.
COUNCILMAN HART: I think they recommend when they get in
the Building Department whether they got a chance or not,
Mr. Bird knows the property pretty well and I think he re•
commends before they pay their $25.00 whet he thinks about
it, and then if they went to go on they must deposit $25.00.
But tc go over the property end'see other houses there end
see the ley of the lend, what it will do to certain districts,
the buildings out there, if it is a little dump or whatever
it might be, whether it Is going to help the neighborhood
end then if the people don't come in and complain them-
selves then they go ahead and grant it. But if you find
you have opposition in a neighborhood where they are going
to build a house on the rear of the lot and crowd the
neighbors then you find the neighbors will come in end
complain.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: That might be true. I em just trying
to drew en analogy there. That is like letting someone
go through the town at 35 miles en hour and saying nothing
granting him a special dispensation end arresting someone
for doing the same thing, it just doesn't add up.
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COUNCILMAN CUTRY: Well, Mr, Carrigan, as I see it there
ere some exceptions. We also grant exceptions to setbacks.
As you know there are requests for setbacks. We just had
one a few meetings ego where we granted ten foot due to the
way the lot was located end so on. As I see it you can't
hold entirely to this. In other words your zoning chenges
also, as the years go by you have to re -zone a town. The
reason for retains this, the town was re -zoned just a short
time ago, as you know, and the Planning Commission had to do
the setting up of this $25.00 so to discourage people coming
in for zone veriances it Wes 210.00 and they raised it to
$25.00 so that there would absolutely be some reason for the
zone variance if they came in end asked for it, not just to
get it re -zoned and later sell it in another zone so a
different type house could he put on it. There ere various
things_that we have to very some from the ordinances es We
go along.
COUNCILMAN HLRT: Aa I said et
should be notified end get the
ell these properties before we
thphem, regardless of whet it is
la
/then we will understand it and
the last meeting, I think we
location so that we"could see
pass our opinion on any of
. If we see the layout of the
if it isn't right vote it
down end if it is alright vote yea for it, but we should see
everyone of these because we sit here and we don't know a
thing about it end then it is a different proposition, but
if you have seen the leyout and what is built up and the
surroundings, how much land they got and ell about it then
we will know end we will be in a better position to vote than
we would if we didn't know. I think we should all see ell
of them:
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MAYOR MATTH!VS: I definitely agree with you.
COUNCILMEN CURRY: Mr. Hart, this is one reason we ere
getting this agenda, why we asked for it two or three days
ahead, for that purpose as stated.
COUNCILMEN CLARKS: Mr. Mayor, I would like to ask an opinion
of the Attorney regarding this Ordinance and this special
request here being made.
ATTORNEY WARM: Well, Mr. Clarke, I -feel this way. The
purpose of the 5,000 feet was that you have to set a rule
some place, but they give the Council the right to vary .it
because there instances where that would work a hardship,
which It probably would do in this case, judging from the
Planning Commission's recommendations and their survey. of
the property but you just can't ley down a hard fast rule
for 5,000 feet and stick to it without working severe hard-
ships on some people, end I have been before other Planning
Commissions and other Councils in other Cities on the same
thing representing clients and their usual question is:
"Will the building that is proposed to be built on it be
equal to other buildings in the neighborhood." In other words
is this going to fit the plans in this particular section or
isn't it. If it is going to be detrimental to the neighbors
and there are protests why then they deny the petition. If'
it is similar to other buildings in the neighborhood and
the chances of having it granted are very good, that is the
way moat of them feel ebout it, if that is not going to be
detrimental. The purpose of having the flexibility is to
give the Council control of it, and to have ? rigid Ordinance
would work hardship en people if you did hava: It is like
having a rule of going to work et 8:00 and getting off et
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1
1
5:00, but sometimes you can't make it et B:00 you have
got to be e little lete. It is like eny other rule you
have to have a variance. I think it is workable like it is,
it is similar to most of them in other cities.
COUNCILMAN C! RKE: Thank you.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Clarke, I might say thet in Olivewood
Terrace it reauires more than 5,000 feet inasmuch as their
lots are much larger lots and I believe in Olivewood Terr-
ace it would possibly be 10,000 feet required.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: No doubt there are extenuating cir-
cumstances in ell cease, the point I am trying to meke,this
thing seems to be rather flexible. Most of you have seen
this property and know whet is going in there, and whet le
there now, which I don't, and you ere ell agreed that It is
alright, I'd go along with you, but I just dislike seeing
special privileges to any particular one. It might be that
somebody across the street wants to do the same thing. I
don't know even whether there is a lot across the street,
but if there is he is entitled to the same consideration
and then you might be in a position to sey that he is entire-
ly wron;, it doesn't add up to me. That is the only point
that I am trying to make.
MAYOR MATTHBWS: There is a motion on the floor. Do you
went to vote on this, or hold it over until Mr. Carrigan
sees the lot.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Tho majority of you have seen it, it
is good enough for me.
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MAYOR MATTHEWS: I have seen it and we have the recommend-
ations of the Plannine Commission. It hes been moved and
seconded, all in favor. Poll call.
CLERK: Carrigan: ;ye. Clarke: Aye. Curry,: Aye. Hart:
Aye. Matthews: Aye,
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Next item.
CITY CLERK ALSTCN: We have a communication from Proeopio,
Price, Cory end Schwartz, addressed to the Honorable Mayor
and City Council. Gentlemen: This office represents the
Netional City Storage Company, ono of the defendents in an
injunction suit filed by the City of Netionel City Jenuery
28, 1947, involving a controversy over the ownership of
24th Street, Nr-tionel City. On March 21, 1947, the in-
junction wes denied by the Superior Court of San Diego
County. An appeal was taken by the City of National City
and the judgment was affirmed by the District Court of
Appeals of the State of California on August 25, 1948.
Sometime thereafter the Southern Title Company, which wes
holding the escrow for the sale of property, in which the
24th Street portion was involved, ascertained from the then
City Attorney, Meredith Cempboll, that the city intended no
further action end that there was no reason why the escrow
could not proceed. I- too, discussed the matter personally
with Mr. Cemabell and received tha same information. How-
ever, for verioua reasons, the escrow was not closed end
there has now been e re -sale of tna property end a new
escrow hes been opened. The Southe:'n title Company, it
making further search, has discovered that another suit
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248
was filed on May 14, 1941, entitled: City of National City •
vs - National City Storage Company, et al., Mary C. Dunlap
and Harry Dunlap. It appears that this suit was filed as
a pert of the original controversy and no further action
hes ever been taken on it. Apparently, by inadvertence,
when the original suit was concluded; this particular ectione
which is Superior Court No. 140198, was never dismissed.
It is hereby respectfully requested that the City Attorney
of National City be granted authority to file a dismissal
of the above numbered suit in order that we may close the
escrow involved. Your cooperation will be greatly appreciat-
ed. Respectfully yours, #3tQCCrIO, T'RICE, COTtY AND SCHWARTZ.
ATTORNEY WMRNER: Mr. Mayor, I will try to tell you what
this is about as much as I can. I wasn't here, or course,
during the negotiations on 24th Street, but whet appears to
have happened was that they filed a suit attempting to do
away with the proceedings for closing 24th Street. In other
words they closed it end then they filed a suit alleging
that it was not properly closed and do away with the closing.
That suit went to Superior Court hero and then to the District
Court of Appeals, and I don't know if that says Supreme
Court or not, but I think it wes decided by an Appellate
Court anyway against the City. What appears to have happen-
ed is, that after this suit was filed and contested they
tried to go after it with another angle and filed a con-
demnation suit on the same property shortly after the first
suit was filed. Then efter the original suit was decided
against the City and Appellate Court the matter was dropped.
Then the escrow was just recently re -opened and in the re-
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249
opening of the escrow, the Title Company picked up the feet
that this suit filed back in 1947 by the City by Resolution
had never been dismissed and just laid there with a com-
plaint. They wanted to dispose of it. They called me and
asked me if I would dismiss it. Inasmuch as the suit was
filed by Resolution, end I would like to bring it to the
attention of the Council, and as a result of that their
Attorney wrote this letter. I don't believe that the Council
anticipates taking any action on 24th Street, I don't think
we would be successful in this old action cf 1947 if we did.
Therefore, I would recommend that I be given authority to
file dismissal on Suit 140198.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Does our master plan which has just about
been completed now include the opening of 24th, Mrs.
Sulliven, or 23rd.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: You may recall that we discussed the
matter of opening 23rd end 24th Street, or rather the open-
ing of 24th Street vs the using of 23rd Street as an access
to the tidelands. For two reasons I recommended that we use
23rd Street, one reason is that it is doubtful whether we
could legally open 24th Street in the light of the previous
litigation, and secondly the grade separation at 24th does
not come on to 24th at McKinley, it isn't easily accessible
at 24th end McKinley. It would be easier to get to the tide-
lands down 23rd Street because s ie ft hand turn would be
required. For that reason it appe rs baszter to use 23rd
Street rather than to attempt tc o'on 24th in the face of
all previous litigations end b oe,ica of t'ele :eft hand turn
anyway.
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COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Mayer, I would like to ask the
Attorney if there is any liability on the part of this
Council from this whet we have inherited from the previous
Council. The suit was filed in '47, 1947 and I was just
wondering es to what this Council should do to clear this
thing off the books so there is no possible chance of this
Council being responsible or liable for something that has
been done in the past.
ATTORNEY WPRNER: All I have to do is file a dismissal, Mr.
Clarke. i just wanted the approval of the Council to do it.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Fine, well I will so move that you have
the approval.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It hes been moved end seconded. All in
favor of the motion say aye. UNANIMOUS. Opposed. Carried,
so ordered. Next item.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: We have a communication from Atherton &
Atherton addressed to the city Council. Oentle msn: On
behalf of our client Lodewijk Lek who is constructing an im-
provement on the property located on the Northeast corner of
A end 8th Avenue, Netional City, we respectfully request
permission to run e sewer from the alley near said property
Westerly for approximately 57 feet along 8th Avenue to con-
nect said property awned by Mr. Lek. Kindly advise us if
this ispermissible. Yours faithfully. Lodewijk Lek.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Does that have. Lrs approval of the Building
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251
1
Inspector?
ATTORNEY WARNER: Yee, I think that letter was sent et the
request of the Building Inspector. They asked Mr. Bird for
a permit, I think in feet thet he hes the money down there.
but it developed that they either had to run the sewer down
the parkway or under the building and of course they could
not run it under the building and he did not want to give a
permit to run it in the parkway, he felt that if the Council
wanted to have it done that way to pass a Resolution giving
permission to run it down the parkway. He didn't feel like
he could issue a permit to run it on City property without
the approvel of the Council.
COUNCTT,M6N HART: I move thet we give him the permit.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Mayor, I would like to ask the Eng-
ngeas, this. been referred to the Engineer, has he made
any recommendations.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Mr. Curry, I can't answer that for
certain. The contractor and he may have discussed it. I
think they discussed it with him but we can go get him.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: In that Resolution'is it stated that
he
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Yes. The Resolution which the City
Attorney hes nrepeted requires his specifications.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Well what :: meant wee it included in
the Resolution et his expense to rep7rce the pavement that
•is.,broken, and so forth.
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CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN. Yes, that is right. In accordance
,with specifications of the City Engineer and Building
Inspector.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Mryor; looking back several years
when I built a house cn First Street, two feet out froth the
property line I was given to understand belonged to the City.
$ might be some occasion where they would went to run some-
thing down there. I built a little rock well et the time
be
and 1 had tofrwful cereful that I did not trespass on that
two feet. In other words there is nothing there but dirt
from the sidewalk to this wall. It was my understanding
that that two feet belonged to the City. rs this where the
proposed line is going to be?
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: That is right. In the parkway that
belongs to, the City.
COUNCILMAN CLARX : You referred to it es the parkway. I
wasn't clear what that parkway meant.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Well that is not the travelled way
nor the sidewalks but the parkway.
ATTORNEY WARNER: Mr. McClure said that they have discussed
the matter with him and it meets with his approval end it
can be worked out.
COUNCILMAN HART: I move that under those ecndidions the
Resolution be adopted.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: I second it.
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CITY CLERK PLSTCN: (RESOLUTION NO. 5354) Be it resolved
by the City Council cf the City of National City, California,
that Lodewijk Lek, is-ermitted to extern] the sewer line from
the alley in Block 2, T. Parsons Subdivision between "A"
Avenue and "B" Avenue at 8th Strout, westerly in the perk -
way area of 8th Street according to specification of the
City Engineer and the Building Inspector, at his own ex-
pense and to connect said sewer with his property located
approximately 57 feet from said sewer and described as the
westerly 60 feet of Lots 4 and 5, Block 2, T. Persons Sub-
division, a subdivision of Lot 8, Quarter Section 155 of
Rancho de le Neaion, In the City of National City, County of
San Diego, State of California.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved end seconded the adopt•
ion of this Resolution. Roll call, please.
CLERK: Carrigan: Aye. Clarke: Aye. Curry: Aye. Hart:
Aye. Matthews: Aye. Carried, so ordered. Next item.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Mr. Mayor, I would like to bring up
one or two things before I foret it. I was over the other
day checking on how tc put diapers on bees. In the convers-
ation we discovered that the sidewalk on 8th Street, we had some discussion about this before but it isn't clear in my
mind yet. There is probably about four sections that are
approximately two inches higher than the rest of the side-
walk. It is a beautiful place to hroek your nook. The
question was put to me whose responsibility is it end again
I had to say I didn't know. I woner If re couldn't get the
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Attorney to be a little more explicit about this particular
one and see whose responsibility It is.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Mr. Attorney.
COUNCILMAN CLARKS: Mr. Mayor, before he starts to explain
I would like to add to that also. I would like to know whose
responsibility it is when some of the trees that we have on
our parking throughout the City raise these sidewalks causing
people to stumble.
ATTCRNEY WARNER: Well. I hate to hedge on these questions
but these ere the kind of things that are being tried down
In Superior Court. Nearly every day we have a slip and fall
case. A good many of them are against the City of San Diego
and other cities on this same thing. If there is a bed side-
walk end the City has knowledge of it then they ought to fix
it, or then we have our sc called neck out. In those cases
where there are bad sidewalks I think they do go out, I know
they have in some instances and called it to the attention
of the property owner and get the thing fixed. As far as the
City is concerned you still have to show that they had know-
ledge of it, that there wes some negligence on the pert of
the City, but if we know of a place thet is bed.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Is it the City's responsibility to
fix it, or the property owner's responsibility? Yes or no.
ATTCRNEY WARNER: The money, that should be paid by the
property owner.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Whoever pays the bill, regardless of
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255
how it is paid.
ATTORNEY WARNER: The property owner.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: If it is the City's responsibility how
can you pass it on.
ATTORNEY WARNER: You are begging the question. You ask me
who is liable and then you say whose responsibility. There
is a lot of difference.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: well, who is going to fix it? Lets
put it that way.
ATTORNEY WARNER: Well if theman won't do it
COUNCILMAN CAR"RIGAN: Well in other words it is definitely
then the property owner's responsibility to fix it, end the
City's responsibility to see thet he does it, is that it?
ATTORNEY WARNER: That is the way I understand it.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: The City is liable If somebody.•preaks an
an kle on a bad sidewalk, is that right.
ATTORNEY WARNER: I didn't say that. I can't tell you in
advance who is liable, that is like asking the question,
well if a man gets hurt in en automobile the driver of the
other cer is liable. The driver isn't always liable. There
is a different answer in overy case and I won't sit here and
give you an answer, en iron clad answer in all cases because
it wouldn't be true. You can't make me say yes or no be-
cause it isn't a truthful answer.
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Ebb
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Let's put it this way then. The side-
walk is on 8th Street, we definitely know that it is a hazard.
There is two and a half inches that is straight up and down
from one section of t:h» wok to the other cn both ends. It
can be corrected by a ramp, concrete put down to form e
ramp. The major section is a good deal higher than all the
rest of the walk in the block. It apparently was put in et
'e later date or a earlier date, I don't know which.
ATTORNEY WARNER: Where abouts on 8th Street?
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Right on the corner of 8th and "D", in
fact it is right in front of the Catholic Church. I can give
you first hand information because I fell over it.
ATTORNEY WARNER: It is the owner's responsibility to fix
it, it is my understanding. I can't quote you the section.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: One more point. If somebody fell then
they would sue the property .caner and
ATTORNEY WARNER: And the City.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Then it dregs on and on end on. The
answer is not clear.
ATTOR'flY WARNER. Tha answer on a slip and fall case, I tell
you from the plaintiff's point of view it is one of the most
difficult cases. That is why when you ask me is the City
liable -or aren't they liable, it is a pretty tough question
because on a slip and fell case from the plaintiff's point of
`vi'ew it is one of the toughest cases to win. Because the man
who fells was negligent himself, he wasn't looking where he
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was going or he wouldn't fall in the first place. The rule
in California is if the party who is suing is negligent he
can't collect. But a slip and fall case is hard to win. In
other words a man walks down that street and stumbles over
that two inches up in the air and falls, the chances are he
wasn't looking where he was going , therefore he is neglig-
ent himself and even If he breaks a leg he can't collect
from either the Church or the City in that instance. There-
fore a slip and fell case is a difficult case to win from the
plaintiff's point of view. But if he wasn't negligent end
the fsult was the sidewalk then you have to determine who is
liable, so you come back is the City liable. In order to
show that the City was liable you have to show that there was
a dangerous condition of which the City had knowledge.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: An accident policy that I happen to
know about one time, where a fellow fell down the steps
and the Court practically threw it out because they said he
intended to go down the steps anyway, so it wasn't an accid-
ent. That is a stupid ruling. But now suppose you go to
this particular party and say fix your sidewalk and he says
I em not going to fix it, what do you do theh?
ATTORNEY WARNER: I have miter hed one of those cases that
is why I say it has always been my understanding of the law
that if they refuse the City can fix it end charge them.
I wouldn't swear to that, but that has always been my
understanding of the law.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Mr. Curry.
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258
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I brought that up some years ago and the
Attorney at that time he gave me a little different answer
from what you have given there. Ho said that should anyone
call the City's attention to a sidewalk that was unsafe why
thew the City was to notify the property owner. It was the
City's responsibility to see that tho property owner fixed
this sidewalk. If the City did not do that then the City
was liable.
ATTORNEY WARNER: Well, I thinkthe answer is part true, and
part not. I think, just like I said to Mr. Carrigan, the
City should notify the property owner and inform him of it
and try to get him to fix it, that part, but if he doesn't
the City is liable is just not e true statement, because you
can't say that anymore than you can say if there is a car
accident the driver of the car going north is liable because
it is not true.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Mayor, since there is quite a number
of dangerous sections of sidewalks throughout the City I be-
lieve it is time that this Council done something very de-
finite about removing those h9zards. Sometime ego I was
talking to the Street Supt. on this very thing. I saw
plenty of those hazardous sections of sidewalk and I asked
him what the procedure was in getting them fixed: He told
me just what Mr. Curry has just stated, that the property
owner is supposed to get them fixed but if he doesn't the
City can fix them and bill the property owner for them. Well
is the property owner compelled to pay the City for the ex-
pense of repairing that sidewalk? Who does the sidewalk
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259
belong to? If the sidewalk belongs to the City, surely
then the City should do something about keeping those side-
walks so people can walk on them.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: The property owner paid for that side-
walk but still it doesn't belong to them.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Whet I would like to see, Mr. Mayor. is
e survey made by our Street Dept. on this sidewalk condition.
It is no use of our shutting eyes to it. Mr. Carrigan has
brought up a complaint, I could bring up several, but those
complaints don't do any gocd unless something concrete is
done when these complaints come in. If there is any respon-
sibility and reliability of this City Council es far es the
conditions of the sidewalk are concerned, I for one want to
see something done about it, end I am in favor of a survey
being made to find where these hazardous conditions exist
and notify the property owner cf them and see if he will be
willing to get them fixed, if nct the City will fix them.
There was another angle, I was given to understand, the
reason the City was not pushing this thing, haven't gone
ahead and repaired these sidewalks is because the old old
story. You ere competing with the local contractors. When
the City does all this work you are taking the work away
from private contractors. Now, that to me is something that
should be streightened out too. Are we just going to let
things go because of that when all this liability end re-
sponsibility on our part to the citizens of the City exist?
Are we going to sit here and listen to such stuff when people
can walk upon the sidewalk and break their legs, my wife
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260
broke her knee a yoar and a half ago. It is nothing funny
about it. I think we should do something about it.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Clarke, on the other hand I don't
think National City has anything to be alarmed about. Com-
paring with other cities why we are in number one shape as
far as sidewalks are concerned.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Curry. It is not what other cities
do, it Is what this City is prepared to do. We, do not re-
quire any other City as a criterion to toll us what we should
do es far as National City is concerned. As far as I am
concerned on this Council, it is my policy to make this City
better than any other City, so therefore I do not wish to
refer to some other City what they are doing or what they are
not doing.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Well, what I had in mind, after all the
property owner is going to pay the bill end unless there is
a hazardous condition I don't believe we should force him to
fix his sidewalk if he hed a few cracks in it or a few bumps
in it. Ycu can go to San Diego right now and see for example
over on Merivale there, I don't, the City must not be liable
there or they would not allow such conditions, and the
property owner, as far es I know, I have relatives over there,
and there is no complaint of it et all. They just let the
tree roots, but we wouldn't went a condition like that. But
in this town, es I said in the beginning, I don't know of
too many sidewalks that are in a bed condition that we
should compel the property owners tc repair, put in new
sidewalks.
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281
COUNCILMAN CLAIM: Mr. Curry, I guarantee you if twelve
property owners come down here and complained stumping their
toes on broken sidewalks you would do something about it in
a hurry.
COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Mayor. I don't think we have such a
big problem. I think we can catch up on it, get a little
surveying, I don't think there is much work involved. There
are some places where it could be hazardous but most of the
sidewalks are in pretty good condition. I believe we can do
this without coating the City much money and in return send
them bills where the sidewalk really needs repairing.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: A little more walking around here in-
stead of automobile driving end you would find out.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Well it is a completely confused
issue, I will throw in another one so that you will be worse
off. I put in the sidewalk in front of the store because
the damage was only to my sidewalk and I had to fix it so I
had to put in a whole new sidewalk from the building to the
curb. Later I got a bright idea and decided that I would
paint it se I came down here to see if it was alright and.
they told me I couldn't paint it because it wasn't my side-
walk, so 1f somebody slipped it wes the city's liability so
therefore I couldn't paint it. Now somebody is off his nut
around here. I don't know whethor it is me or you or some-
body else, but we ought to have an answer for these people
that ask questions. I felt kind of stupid. I don't know
yet whose sidewalk it is, and we have been talking here for
half en hour.
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282
COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Mayor, I see some people paint their
sidewalk. I don't know how.
ATTORNEY WARNER: I suggest that it be referred to me end
I'll give you 8 written opinion.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Don't confuse it.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I move that the matter of sidewalks be
referred to the Attorney.
COUNCILMAN HART: Second.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I think we should come to an under-
standing, Are we going to fix the things or not fix them,
period,
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded that this be
referred to the Attorney. All in favor make it known by
saying eye. UNANIMOUS. Opposed. Now do you want to repair
all the sidewalks in town and send the owner a bill. The way
we would have to do it would be to have a survey and we would
have to notify each property owner that he mist repair the
sidewalk within a certain number of days, and if he does not
we can go ahead and repair it ourselves. Do you want to wait
until you get this opinion before you go ahead with the sup*
vey.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Mayor, the reason I would like to
see a survey, one case in particular, it, happened not so
very long ago. A person complained about a broken sidewalk
in front of their house, he was dhe of the old residents and
a big taxpayer in National City, he called the repair dept.
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283
end a repair crew went out there any' the hole was fixed.
Now, what is that• Every section of the City has got holes
in the sidewalk, and as Mr. Carrigan pointed out, raise up
there two or three inches. I can show you lots of them if
you like to walk. Now tc me that is not fair. So that is
the reason I would like to see a survey. You can't depend
on the people to complain or call the Street Dept. There
are certain people who will do it and know they will get
action, which they have got action on. I think it is the
duty of the City to take care of the whole City area.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I can confuse the issue a little more by
seking whose responsibility it would be then in case there
is no sidewalk and yet it is City property. !e have some
ditches along where the sidewalk should be in half the
places. Did you want to include that in the survey?
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN:. You have the same problem there. You
charge the property owner for putting in the street `,and
then the City maintains it. Now if the property owner pays
for the sidewalk and it has proven hazardous then the City
should maintain the sidewalk.. I don't know whether it adds
up to anything, but there it is.
CCUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Mayor, I would like to also include
In this survey, there are a number of places in the City
where the property line is, as we know, is two feet from the
sidewalk to the property line which is city property, I
believe .it was called to my attention in several cases where
there hes been obstructions in the way of fences, hedges and
what have you out on this City property, and I asked et the
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264
lest meeting if the City was liable, end I would like that
tc be included in the survey, end also to include the trees
in the alleys.
ATTORNEY WINNER: Trees in the alleys and two feet beyond
the property line.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Mr. Attorney, if you can repair the side-
walk, just a mintte, if you can repair the sidewalk and
send the customor the bill and they by law have to pay why
couldn't we instruct them to install sidewalks in places
where we don't have them, and send them the bill. We might
ask them to put it in. How about a City wide improvement
district then, to put in sidewalks where we don't have them.
Can we do that?
ATTORNEY WARNER: I don't think you could do it City wide.
You Would be making people who have sidowelks pay for people
who don't have sidewalks.
'MAYOR MATTHEWS: For the ones that don't have sidewalks.
ATTORNEY WARNER: Then you got to get a District, you have
got to tie it down.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Number 5. How wide is a sidewalk?
ATTORNEY'WARNER: How wide is a sidewalk?
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Mayor, whilo we are on sidewalks, I
would like to ask what progress has been made on the side-
walks on 24th.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: That is a good question.
265
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: The sOecifications will be reedy
for the next meeting.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Any other discussion. If not, we will
proceed with the next item.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: That is all I have, Mr. Mayor.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Can we have the, anything from
ATTORNEY WARNER: I have one more thing, Mr. Mayor. It is
this Block 236, I believe it was, that you authorized the
City Attorney to buy out -the plaintiff for S100.00. We got
into Court and the Judge indicated that he wanted to settle
-.all the issues in the matter, it is going up to the Appell-
ate Court, no doubt anyway, therefore, I saw no reason or
use in spending the S100.00 inasmuch es we ere going up on
all issues anyway and the City would be in the same position
without spending the n00.00 as we would with spendinc it,
therefore, we didn't settle the suit but we are filing en
answer in a cross complaint in the action. I merely went to
report on that and ask that you sign the answer in the cross
complaint for me. That is all I have.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: Communication from the Recreation
Commission addressed to Honorable Mayor and City Council.
Gentlemen: The National City Recreation Commission wishes
to request a monthly report on the Recreation Commission
Budget. Thanking you for your Attention in this matter, we
remain, Yours very truly, A. L. Hcwell, Acting Chairman.
• COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Can't any member of the Recreation
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266
Commission walk in end look on the legger sheet and tell?
CITY CL RK ALSTON: Yes, sir.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN• Mr. Carrigan, since their letter was
addressed to the Council I haven't given them a separate
sheet, but i will before their next meeting. So it won't
be necessary to ask the Council for it.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I see no objections granting the re-
quest. The books are supposed to be open anyway. I see no
reason why they couldn't gp in end take a look.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Anything else from the Recreation. If nct
we will proceed with the City Manager's report.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: We have a communication that was sent
To Whom It May Concern, from Corps. of Arm y Engineers on, it
is very short, I might just as well read it. Application
hes been made with the Eleventh Navel District of San Diego
for a permit to construct and install two 20-pile dolphins
60 feet bayward of the U. S. pierhead Line, in the vicinity
of Naval Station Pier 13, South Ben Diego Bey, California.
Drawing showing location and plan of the proposed structures
is on file et this office end is reproduced on the reverse
of this sheet. Interested persons are invited to inspect
this drawing end to submit in writing, in triplicate, on or
before 11:00 a.m., Friday, 3 November 1960, shy objections
based on navigation interests that they may have to said work.
The decision as to whether or not a permit will be issued,
based on plans submitted, must rest primarily upon the
effect of the proposed work on navigation. The reason that
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267
I am bringing it to your attention is that the dolphins,
as they are proposed', ono is north of Pier 13 which is the
most southerly pier in the Navy Repair Base, and one is pro -
to be
posed/southerly of Pier 13. The dolphin that is proposed
southerly of Pier 13 would be in the immediate channel of
where the tentative plans for Netionel City's first pier is,
and it would interrupt navigation for insurance, and 1 would
like to ask the Council in behalf of the City to object to
the location of the dolphin south of pier 13, a written ob-
jection on the basis of navigation, end also be represented
at the hearing on November 3rd.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I move that the City Manager be author-
ized to present the objections.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: I second it„ Mr. Mayor, I would also
like to add that is cne thing that we have got to watch with
this contemplated recreation area down there that things like
this don't creep up on us.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Would you want included that you be author-
ized to appear, or the Attorney. It hes been moved and
seconded. A11 in favor of the motion say aye. UNANIMOUS.
Opposed. Carried, so ordered. Next item.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: At the lest meeting of the Redeveldp-
ment Agency, Mr. Kreinberg presented a letter to me notifying
me that he had moved outside tho City limits of National
City, and it was his understanding that it was necessary for
him to resign. He regrets resigning, but because of his
residence outside the City of National City he would not be
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268
eligible to serve, therefore we have a vacancy. He will
serve, of course, until his successor is appointed and
qualified. You have a vacancy on the Community Redevelop-
ment Agency.
COUNCILMAN CLARKKS: Mr. Mayor, I would like to ask if that
also applies to Mr. Chamberlain and Mr. Mocrehouse.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Mr. Moorehouse is a resident of
National City.
MAYCR MATTHEWS: May we have a motion accepting the resignat-
ion.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I move the resignation be accepted.
COUNCILMAN HART: I second it.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Can you add to that: rending the re-
appointment. we won't lose him until we get somebody else,
will we.
,ATTORNEY WARNER: No, he will have to serve until he is
succeeded.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: All right, if that is included in the
motion. It has been moved and seconded, All in fever of
the motion, make it known by the usual voting sign. UN-
ANIMOUS. Opposed. Carried, so ordered, On the reappoint-
ment do we, cur idea in having e benkor on this Commission
wss to have someone on there that was very familiar with
finances. I think we have run out of bankers now.
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269
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: We have about run out of bankers.
You don't appoint a Chairman this time, you appoint a
member of the Redevelopment Agency. They appoint their
own.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Who is the Chairman.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Mr. Kreinberg is Chairman.
MAYOR )& TTR!WS: We appointed Mr. Kreinberg in the place of
Mr. Dyster. How did he retain the Chairmanship then.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: The Community Redevelopment Agency
concurred in your appointment of Chairman, but the Community
Redevelopment Agency's law indicates that you appoint the
first Chairman end then thereafter they appoint their own.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I believe that Mr. Dyster sent a reruest to
Los Angeles asking permission to serve, end it seems that
the management in Los Angeles cr San Francisco whereverthe
Heedouerters is discouraged his serving on somethi:_ thrt
they did not know very much about. Do you think thst e
letter from the Council requesting their permission to allow
him to serve, do you think that might beer a little weight
to allow Mr. Dyster to go ahead and serve on that.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, Mr. Mayor, it is my understanding
Mr. Dyster reouested to be taken off that.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, that was the reason, that he received
orders, and Community Redevelopment is something new. I
don't know whether it would help or not, but it is something
that they didn't know about and said "no" until they can
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270
find out, and if there is someone else in town that any of
you can suggest that would be sharp on finance. It is
going to be a pretty big business.
COUNCILMAN CLL.RKE: How soon does this vacancy have to be
filled?
ATTORNEY WARNER: Mr. Kreinberg will serve until his
successor is appointed.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: No immediate rush.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: On the Question of Redevelopment, in
Mr. Chamberlain's case does he come under the reouirements
of other City employees that he must live in National City.,
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: I don't know. No, the Act exempts
the employees in the Redevelopment Agency from Civil Service
rules or any other personnel rules cf the City, but as a
matter of policy I don't know whether he would or not.
ATTORNEY WARN"R: He doesn't come under the Civil Service
rules.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I understood it was a Council policy
regardless of Civil Service that all the employees move
into the City within, whet was it, a year's time.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: One year.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Shell we heve en expression from the
Council.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, Mr. Mayor, es far es I am ccn-
10/31
earned, it is my understanding also that anybody employed
by the City, receiving wages from the taxpayers of the City
are reouested after a six month's period to move into the
City limits of National City. When you refer to anybody
as en employee of the City, it matters not to me who they
are, or where they come from or what they are doing, if
they are an employee, that is that, end we have a policy
whereby, I think the Council voted on it, unanimous, that
that should apply to every employee. I see no reason why
one should be left out.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I think it was a yeer, wasn't it that we
agreed.
COUNCILMAN CU_?KE: But on the other hand, though, if this
is only going to be a short term employment you have some-
thing there. It would be a hardship on anyone to cause them
to.meve into the City limits if the job was only going to be
for a year cr two years.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: I am Quite certain Mr. Chamberlain
has no objections and I know that he hes attempted to find
a place to live in National City for ovar 30 days. He had e
realtcr actively engaged trying to find a place and he is
still cn the list trying to find e place to live in Nati'6nal
City. I am surd he would have no objections.
COUNCILMAN CAfitIGLN: I will come in end reeuest a zone
variance and build him a home on ton of 4, garage.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: It is his intention, Mr. Clarke, to
live in National City, but he hasn't found a tope yet.
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272
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I em afraid your neighbors would kick
though.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I think they would too.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: If there is no further discussion we will
take the next item.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: We have several liquor licenses
that have come through. We have had an unusual number of
transfers. These have been investigated by the Chief of
Police but came in too late to put an your agenda. There
is one for Elsie A. Fagan. This Is a grocery store that
has had this type of license for several years. Mrs. Fagan
is a new owner and has had pest experience with this type
of license. We recommend no objection, that is from Mr.
Bates. That is at 1540 Coolidge Avenue. There is also
one from Apex Restaurant owned by Manuel and Carmen Maloney.
The chief reports this is a renewal, no change in ownership
or management, and no objections. There is one for f04
National Avenue by Mindot Corp. This is a Corporation that
will have a new manager. This location is unknown to us
et this time. There are no recommendations:Prom the depart-
ment. In connection with Mindot I have asked Mr. Berry for
a review of the ownership of Mindot, Inc. end they have
recently bought two places for transfer, one is the Tahiti
and the other is the Corner Cafe, end he tells me that they
ere a corporation from Los Angeles. They have recently
come into San Diego end are engaged in buying a number of
on sate liquor establishments, and heve bought the Hide -A -
Way in North Park, but they have had little experience with
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273
them in San Diego County. They have recently come into the
County. I know of no reason to object to the issuance of
a transfer.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Does the Board of Equalization
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: The application has to have on the
names of the corporation in eedh case, whenever we reousst
the ownership of a corporation they furnish it. In the case
of the "68" Club, for example, they furnished the ownership
names which wore E. L. Conn, Irving Conn, H. Conn & Procopio.
COUNCILMAN CAR3IGAN:
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Because they are a corporation they
wouldn't show any names et all. But the Board of Equalization
furnishes names upon request. .
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, Mr. Mayor, I was wondering if
there is a parent body in beck of this. It is my understand-
ing there is such a thing. I understand it is some largo
distillery in the east. Are they trying to monopolize
such places throughout this arse. Two other people told me
they were approached by the same individuals trying to bey
them out. Whether it is going to be worth while for this
Council to see
is back of all
do anything, I
name displayed
I think we ere
for the Police,
they recommend
that some investigation is made as to what
this, whether it is worth while for us to
do not know. But since there is no definite
on who these people are, or what they are,
entitled to know. Of course it is a matter
it is their job to investigate those things,
licenses end so on, generally I am guided by
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274
their investigation. But so many rumors have been getting
around that I em wondering what is in back of all of them.
MR. ALSDORP: I em just wondering. Lest Monday night I
made a check of this and I think there is about 10 liquor
licenses within 600 feet. There ere four on National Ave,
between 7th & 8th on the West side of the street, there
ere two on 8th Street on the North side and one or two on
the South side of 8th Street within a block and a half of
National. There are two on National Avenue between 8th
and 9th, about ten different places to sell liquor within
just a few hundred feet. I think that would be enough
objection to the Council to take with the Board of Equzl-
izetion. I intend to write them about this. I made a
check from 8:45 P.M. to 9:45 P.M. of the different entrances
to these pieces. Brown Bear there were one entrance there,
one officer of the Navy, two Seamen end five civilians.
Tahiti, there were one civilian and two sailors. Texas
Liquor Store, there were four civilians and two sailors.
Club "66" there were fifteen service men and eight civilians.
Now, I don't know whether the Rexall Drug Store has any
license or not. In the Corral there was one civilian
that was intoxicated. I dcn't know whether Menini has one
or not. The Esky there were two sailors and one woman went
into this place. Escalente's there was no one that went
in.
COUNCILMIN CLARKE: Mr. Mayor, I would like ask Mr. Alsdorf
just whet are you trying to bring out.
MR. ALSDORP: Whet am I trying to bring out. That we have
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275
too many liquor licenses in c given area in National City.
Now I think that the Council should make an obbection to
some of these renewals.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, I think that is beyond our juris-
diction. Of course I would rather heve the Attorney give
you en answer to that, but it is already established there
and transferring these licenses over. As far es the people
go I was wondering what angle that had to do with it. Surely
that is not many people going into ell those places.
MR. ALSDORF: That's right. That % right. There ere not
very many people going into the places, that is the reason
it should not have so many liquor licenses and places of
sale in a small given community, and I think that the
Council should make a stand, regardless of whether they have
any authority from the Board of Hqualization under State law
or not.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, Mr. Alsdorf, you have only looked
at one side of the picture. Now, let's be fair about it.
You went in et the sleek time. You go in certain other
times end you would have e hard time getting in the door of
those places.
MR. ALSDORF: well, I am not going in.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, Mr. Alsdorf, at the lest Council
meeting, I don't know whether ycu were hero or not, we did
MR. ALSDORF: I missed two of them.
MAYOR MATTHETS: We did take a stand upon the issuance of
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276
licenses 1n the old National Hotel. We discussed it. Now
these two licenses are the Tahiti and the Corner Cafe which
have been sold to Mindot, Inc. It is a large company, end
from whvt I have been able to find out it is a large company
that is coming in from the sEPet, they have bought three
places that I know of in San Diego, and they offered to buy
the two in the old National Hotel, but the fellow that talk-
ed to me said that he got it through the grapevine that we
were going to put the pressure on that old building so they
backed off, they said that they would still be interested in
buying those two if we happened to ease the pressure. Now,
it does show that they ere interested in owning all of the
beer Joints, so called, in National City if they can get
them. So I definitely egree that we should make a stand to
eliminate some of these businesses. There are so many that
I em afraid that none of them aro going to make a living,
and that is going to encourage them to go to some other
means to make a living which we wouldn't approve of here,
more
so 1 definitely would like to get backing and get/help to
put the pressure on this old National Hotel. I think we
have got a good reason there to condemn the building for non
use, if possible. We brought it up last meeting and hope to
get some publicity on it and get started. We haven't done
enough.
MR. AiSDORF: I might say that in addition to that I'took
a picture of this vicinity last Sunday. The film is being
developed and I em going to write a letter to the Board of
Equalization end tell them that we don't need that many
liquor licenses in National City.
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279
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: 'Dc you think you could help us to
get 23,000 other people in National City to do the same
thing.
MR. ALSDORF: 23,000, Mr. Carrigan, I think 10,000 would be
enough, end I will help you do that.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Alsdorf, I think if you will read the
minutes of the last meeting you will find, out, find that
this council went on record, 100 percent objecting to the
condition on National Avenue, and the joints, we stated as
much es it wasn't a safe place for a lady to walk and they
did avoid walking in that portion of the City.
COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Mayer, according to his record how
many people went in and out there, I don't believe it would
be necessary not to give a license, they would eliminate
themselves if that Ss ell the people going in there. And
I believe as he does that there are too many in this town
have
and if we just keep going we will/nbeor joints!' here. There
are toe many for this size of town, although I figure they
ere necessary. They have them in other towns and we should
not be different than any ether place.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Mr. Alsdorf, do you have something else.
MR. ALSDORF: That is ell I have, thank you.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, I personally view with alarm the fact
that a corporation this size and with the money that they
have that they ere considering coming in end buying every-
thing in National City. I view it with suspicion and alarm
10/31
278
and wonder why that they are going to invest that kind of
money here, end of course with the wer situation coming on
and the speed up of the aircraft industries and the thousands
of Navy personnel that ere going to be here, it is definite-
ly going to be a very lucrative business, that is probably
the reason this big money is coming in. But I think if
there is any possible way that we can, we have sent a letter
of complaint to the Board of Equalization on these buildings
that are in the old National Hotel, otherwise we don't
actually have toc much control over them, but by using the
old building es an excuse to eliminate that block if poss-
ible, that is what I would like to do, whatever action is
necessary to do it.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Mayor, it's been agreed that we do
not have any control over the liouor licenses, now there is
a question in my mind, when we know et the time that those
people ere not paying any sales tax and they ere people that
ere better able to pay sales tax than any people I know of.
I would like to have this referred to the City Attorney as
to the possibility of them paying a sales tax for the liouor
sold.
MAYOR I& TTHEWS: I know that we can't charge on the liquor
license, although one, two cities that are sixth class are
charging the use tax, illegally, we know, but are getting
away with it. Are we collecting sales tex from the liquor
stores on the sales of candies, cigarettes, cigars end many
other things that they handle, are we now.
ATTO?C EY ILRN5R: I do not know, but will check on it.
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279
MAYOR MATTHEWS. If they ere not, why there Is quite a lot
of sales tax we can collect there.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I should like to know also why should
there be any difference on off sale and on sale. Now, one
you obtain sales tax on. Why should they pay sales tax on
liquor that is sold out of the store and not pay over the
bar.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I don't believe they ere.
COUNCILMAN CLARKSS: You pay taxes no matter where you drink
it.
COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Mayor. On this one you spoke about,
this old building, hotel building. The only thing that is
in that building and it is on the best corner of the City
on the 8th Street side is a card room and on the corner a
liquor store, then the n680 Club, end I think there ere
only two businesses, a barber shop and a shoe store In that
whole thing, and another card room. Thet is what we have on
that corner,
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: It is my understanding that that
building had been condemned in prior years, whet are they
still doing there.
COUNCILt91N CLt•RK4: Along those lines, Mr. Mayor, I would
like to drew your attention to something I saw in e paper
concerning the First Resident Housing Aid, is whet be is
called. His name is J. H. Harris, and from this statement
in the San Diego paper he will work out of the San Diego
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280
County Building Inspection Department at the Civic Center.
The new inspector will enforce the health and safety
measures of the State Housing Act as they apply to apart-
ment houses, hotels, motor courts end labor camps in unin-
corporated areas. He will also inspect trailer courts re-
gardless of locetion. The reason I bring this up, Mr. Mayor,
I am wondering about our trailer court situation, what bee'
been done about that, we discussed sometime ego. And also
this thing we are talking about the hotel et 8th and
National. Perhaps it would be well for him to him to apprais-
ed of conditions here in National City and haveto over that
place as we did and see what he thinks about it, since his
job is to enforce the health end safety features of the
State Housing Act he probably can do us a lot of good on this
thing, which is a bone of contention et this time.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well I am suro that the City Manager can
furnish reports of numerous agencies that have inspected the
building.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Mr. Mayor, I am sorry to interrupt.
This Agency is the one that evicted, helped us to evict the
people from the second and third floor of the National Hotel.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I know that our Piro Chief looked over it,
and I would like to have his report and I would like to have
the report of any other agency that hes gone through the
building, and I think that we have kept it Quite long enough,.
if we have got to start e fight, if that is what it takes,
and we will cell on the ministers ' association, they helped
a lot on "Bridgo-Bingo" end if this is what it takes, why I
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281
went to stir the dog gone thing up and get the job done. It
is now or never. With the big money that is coming in end
buying these places we will be in court battles from now on
if we don't get started, if we wait until the business gets
gwod it will never happen. If we don't eliminate this build*
ing now we never will.
COUNCILMAN HART: This building hes been condemned and I
can't see why we shouldn't get started now.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, we should order
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Mr. Hart, we can find nothing on
record.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Mayor, it is my impression in that
meeting we had with the Attorney, well he is part owner as
a matter of feet, Procopio and one or two other men from
La Jolla, that we, I came away from that meeting with the
impression that they were definitely given to understand
that their time in there was limited. They wanted longer
than we ware willing to give them. What has developed since
then I am entirely ignorant of, I will admit that. But it
certainly surprises me when people are allowed to go ahead
and charge their licenses and do whet ever they want to in
a building that we contemplate condemning end get everybody
out of there, have it torn down if necessary. How do these
things come about.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, I would like to instruct the City
Manager right now, I am not sure that she has got the picture
clear in the pest, that we would like to see something done
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282
that is a little more drastic than we had planned to do,
like instructing the Fire Chief whatever is necessary to
hang the padlock on, instruct the Chief of Police to go
close it up and clear the hazard and then if it is a Court
battle, why Mr. Pop Werner gets paid for his time, and let's
see whet we can do to get the job done. Get some public
opinion back of it. We will call on the ministers associat-
ion, I think you can help us Ed., and let's stir this thing
up a little bit and let people know that we don't want to be
a dive town and a town of beer joints. We have got enough of
them. Is that clear.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Let's have the City Clerk reed the two
letters into the record.
CITY CLERK ALSTDN: Stets Board of Ecualization. Gentlemen.
The City of National City has been notified of supposed
issuance of two liquor licenses, namely, Club "66" Inc., 730
National Avenue, and The Texas Liquor Store, Inc., 740
National Avenue. The addresses of these two licenses are
located in the National Hotel Building at the corner of Bth
Street and National Avenue. This building was originally
constructed in 1884 and is situated on the main business cor-
ner of National City. There is considerable community
interest in seeing that this building is renovated or re-
moved. The second and third floors of the building have
recently been vacated from hotel useage. This was done es
a result of an investigation and order of the State Depart-
ment of Industrial Relations, Division of Housing. The
members of the City Council, the City Manager and the Fire
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Chief made a thorough inspection of the building June 15,
1950. Subsequent to this time a conference was called by
the owners of the building pointing out the desirability
of replacing the structure. A series of investigations
have been carried on as to the pcsaible violations of State
and local laws, and review has been made of arrests and com-
plaints at or near this building. At a meeting of the City
Council October 17, 1950, I was instructed to protest the
issuance of these two licenses end to reouest that the State
Board cf Equalization delay action on this matter to give
the citizens of the community an opportunity to register
their opinion with your Board concerning the issuance of
these licenses. Very sincerely, Doris"Sullivan, City Manager.
Copy to C. E. Berry, Liquor Control Administrator, District
Six.
COUNCILMAN CARiIGAN: The Texas Liquor Store and Club "66".
The TOXES Liquor Store is the one cn the corner.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: Ind copy to Wm. G. Bonelli, Fourth
District. State Board of Equalization. Gentlemen:
COUNCILMAN CARRIGl:N: Would you put the dates in.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: The first date was October 18, 1950.
Octobor 20, 1950. State Boerd of Equalization. Gentlemen:
is a
This/supplemental letter of the communication addressed to
your Board under date of October 18, 1950, concerning the
protest cf the City Council of National City to the issuance
of liconse to the 1166" Club Inc. end The Texas Liquor Store,
Inc. The grounds upon which the City Council is making
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284
objections to the issuance of licenses are ss follows:
1.-The issuance of these licenses are contrary to the public
welfare and morals because they are both located in a dil-
spited building with unsatisfactory sanitation facilities
cn the ground floor of a building that has been condemned
es unsafe for human habitation. In addition the public
welfare is greatly endangered by the unsavory•environment
produced et this location. It is the main business corner
of the City of National City requiring the population in
general tc pass by this corner or stand on this corner
awaiting for public transportation. There is a general
opinion among many men of the community that this building
with its present useage is a neighborhood to be avoided by
women and children. The City Council officially end the
public opinion generally consider the continuation of this
building and Its tenants as a menace to the public welfare
and morals of the community. Every legal step possible is
being taken to remove this condition. 'The issuance of these
licenses will aggravate what is already a serials eor rtty
problem having to do with the public welfare and morals.
an
2. The issuance of these licenses will create/added police
problem. The records of the rolice Department show that the
Club "66" is a repeated source of complaints and police calls
including theft, drunkenness, innumerable disturbances and
many complaints which do not result in legal actions. Add-
itional information end details will be available et a
hearing on this matter. Very sincerely, Doris Sullivan,
City Manager.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I think those are very good letters. I
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think they express our policy very well, end views.
COUNCILMAN CARRIOAN: Well if we are going to get in this
fight let's get in it with both feat and instruct the police
business
not to issue any/licenses in that building and instruct
the Fire, and irstruct Bird not to issue any building permits.
Let's get this thing going. We will have tc find out who is
bigger, National City, or these boys down here.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Don't you think, Mr. Mayor, et this
meeting, I believe you were there, with the owners of the
building.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: No, I didn't make it.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: There hes been something there that we
carried out in our end of the bargain, it was all verbally
I admit, but since they were certainly given to understand
the attitude cf this Council es Per as their building was
concerned. I am wondering how they can just unload this
thing onto somebody else and make a big headache for us.
In
other words we went into that meeting every phase es far es
they were concerned and gave them every consideration. What
have they given us. Nothing but o big headache.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I think that is true.
COUNCILMEN CLARKE: These people, I think, somebody, should
appraise them of the fact as to their actions in the matter.
Breach of faith I call it.
COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Mayor. I think we should go a little
further and not issue any license of any kind.
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MAYOR MATTHEWS: I am for that, but like Mr. Carrigan says
we have got to, if we are going to start this, we have got
to go et it end put full time in until this job is finished.
Get all the help that we can from the organizations of the
city, the Realty Board, the ministers association, Pop
Warner, I hope here on legal legal. And I think that it is
Quite clear what the pclrcy is. I am sure that Mr. Newman
can give us publicity and start it out ih the paper.
would like have
I
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Well, let's get that first even if
we have to pay for it, let's get it in headlines and get
the people of National City behind the thing end I think we
will find out who is behind it and who is against it, for or
against it. With their help I am sure we could clean up the
mess in. I'll say it again, it is a mese.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: If you would like to use the pictures why
we will sure take the responsibility of anything that you
would like tc print, and if the San Diego papers went to
tyke it up, it is up to them, Charlie. So if you would help
us on that, I would appreciate it.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: We have e file of pictures hero.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGrN: Would the Council O.K. en open letter
to the people of National City requesting their help in this
matter. Put in big print and put it in the paper. Put
plenty cf white around it so they will see it. Take a half
page or a pace whatever is necessary for it.
COUNCILMAN CLARKS: Do you want to spend another month's
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287
salary of the Council.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: It is alright with me. I will give
you the next six months.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Could you give us a full page for two
month's salary, Charlie.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, Mr. Mayor, since this is entirely
a community affair I don't think the Council should be foot-
ing the bills for things like that. I am heartily in accord
with th"publicising, but the idea of the Councilmen peying
for all these things I don't agree with.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: The Attorney doesn't think it would be
illegal expenditure.
COUNCILMAN CARBIGAN: I will offer my pay for the balance
of my term in office to pay for the eds.
COUNCILMAN CL1•ZK4: -Mr. 'Mayor, -I •believe this paper we have
here is big enough, end I believe their policy is broad
onough and they are interested enough in.the welfare of the
community and the citizens that •they would give us e little
specs without us having to pay for it.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I,11 •offer my, the balance of my term it
is only a year and a half.
COUNCILMAN CARIIGLN: That will pay for it.
MAYOR MLTTHE""'S: That will pay for it, so you go ahead end
write it up.
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COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Let's let the City Manager write
the letter to the people 'of National City, we will pay for
the ad. 'mild that be news? Would that go on the front
page?
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Members of the Council, in preper-
ing.
MIY03 MATTHE""iS: Lee and I will pay for it.
COUNCILMAN CL''1KE: Mr. Mayor, that is why I beliuve the
Attorney was smart enough to see, es I pointed out to him,
what I was afraid of was that we are going to have a
catastrophe down there. They had elreedy one fire and left
the remains of thet fire Just es it was when people were
living In it, which is not right. ^hoy realized that they
would lose that place on the conditions that such places of
habitation for people, they knew thet, so whet have they
done, they got rid of all that. They kept the parts of the
building that wee producing collars and cents for them and
now that they have s thence to lose that they have unloaded
it on to some innocent people, now we have tc
people, whatever we want to do, if we want to
fight those
get them out,
it is not going to be an easy matter. Time is going to drag
on. To still might have a catastrophe.
fireproof, everybody knows that.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: ":tank you.
It is far from being
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I think even the Foderal Government
recognizes that that particular block is a blighted area but
didn't do anything about it.
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MAYOR MATTHEWS: I am not so sure about the innocence of
the people. On this idea of the pictures of the hotel
that you were using in San Diego, you didn't mean that you
would tie the two together.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: No, but 5th and Market is recognized
to be the center, nevertheless. On the matter of Community
Redevelopment, when Mr. Clarkson was here I did take him
down to the National Hotel to see if it would be eligible
for community redevelopment under the,Federal Act , and
although it is eligible under the California Act for re-
development it has a hazard of being eligible under the
Federal Act because it is not predominately residential, at
this time. The only property that can be redeveloped commer-
cial with Federal funds would be if it were predominately
residential, but it is eligible under the California Act,,
if you went to ask the Community Redevelopment Agency to
procure it.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Let's ask for it, take everything we
can do end take to get rid of it. Incidentially, before I
forget it, I would like to ask the City Clerk that this par•
ticular meeting be printed verbatim, reouest. Do you want
a motion.
CITY CLERK ALSTON: Yes.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I move that the minutes of this
particular meeting be printed verbatim.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Any particular reasons, Mr. Carrigan?
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290
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Yes. So that they will be on the
counter downstairs, they will be at the Chamber of Commerce
'and there won't be any misunderstanding or misquoting or
mis'wording, it will be in the records:
COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Carrigan, don't we have one down
there that people can see if, they like.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: It is not verbatim. It is edited.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Are you sure that we didn't say anything
thet might be libelous.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I am pretty sure. Besides, while
we are in it with both feet, let's stay in it.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Was there a second?
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: I just wanted Mr. Cerrigan to elaborate
on his roesons for that. Does this particularly pertain
to the hotel controversary.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Yee, definitely.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, I will second the motion.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It has been moved and seconded. A11 in
favor of the motion say eye. UNANIMOUS.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Is it understood that it is for this
particular meeting.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Opposed. Carried, so ordered. Any other
discussion.
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CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: One other matter. Mr. Mayor and
members of the Council, I would like:to brings to your
attention. This came in today, too ?ate for your agenda
but you probably want notice of it. A letter from Mr.
'Patterson, which says in quotes: "I wish to tender my
resignation as a member of the Civil Service Commission to
take effect as soon as possible. It being the policy of
the city council to have as many citizens as possible serve
on the various commissions and in no case to have one
citizen serve on any more than one commission this move
is necessary es I had already boon appointed to the Housing
and Redevelopment Agency and I feel that my best work for
the city can be performed on this latter agency." It is
for your future action.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Do you wish to accept his resignation
tonight. I believe it is alright to accept it, and in
the event any of you have any.
COUNCI MAN CARRIGAN: I move we accept the resignation
pending the reappointment.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Is there a second.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Second.
MAYOR MATTI-ISWS: All in favor say aye. UNANIMOUS. Orposed,
carried. I don't know whether you fellows know Hank, what
is it? Tikkanen. If ycu don't know him, you might £ock
and find out, who he is see if you approve of hair .: g him
serve on tho commiss'o^
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COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: 0f course, since he has expressed an
interest in the Civil Service Commission, it would be my
suggestion that the matter of :he appointment with the
apparent knowledge thet it is go:.ng to take ;uito a lot
of time, that the various men that the different Councilmen
might wish to appoint, end see if we can't get them to-
gether in the City Manager's Office and have an open dis-
cussion with them first end tell them what the job is, what
the headaches are involved and whet we expect of them and
give them an opportunity to accept or reject the appoint-
ment before it is made. They will havo our thinking and we
can get their thinking,' and I think there will be a lot
less room for faulty thinking on everyone's pert.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I definitely approve of thet.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Did any of you express any opinion on
whether we should have Mr. Dyster to serve again. I forgot
whether we had discussed this part.
COUNCILh91N CLARK3: Well, I just stated whet Mr, Dyster
told me about his resignation. It seemed very definite to
me.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, If it is
COUNCILMAN CARDIGAN: We should have a banker on there if
it is et all poss±b'ae. I don't hold any brie' for Dyster
or any other particular banker, but I feel that w9 should
have a banker on there 'that has some knowledge of banking
and if we could get him to serve, if he ie will!tg to
serve, willing to put in the time. The only thir.3 that is
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preventing him is the fact thet the Bank of America objects.
He is willing to work if that o ec•:Sor. iu removed. I would
be happy to go along with getting him tack on, but if he
don't feel that he hes the time, or doesn't want to, then
I think we would be doing wrong in trying to get him beck
on.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, he seems very interested. He hes
attended other meetings even since then in en unofficial
capacity. I think thet just by being there expressed a
willingness to serve if Los Angeles would approve it. But
he is just working there the same as anyone else.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Would it be possible in the event that
Mr. Dyster end Mr. Kreinberg are not available that there
could be a position placed there in an advisory capacity
even if they can't be definite members.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: The only thing wes, I was going to ask
the Manager to write a letter to the Los Angeles to see if
they have any further objections, if not we can continue
using him in an advisory capacity. He is the only man that
hes shown a lot of community spirit other than Mr. Kreinberg
thet might serve unless we can get the Meneger of the other
bank to serve.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Mr. Kreinberg was resigning because
he was moving to chule Vista, it wasn't because he did not
have the time, or wouldn't take the time.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: No, no, Mr. Kreinberg has offered
to continue any advice that he can end regretR very much
A
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that he has become ineligible.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: How about the manager of .be other bank.
Hes he ever been regnuytad to serve, Ned Rogers?
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: He is ineligible.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Oh, Ned Rogers lives outside of National
City, that is right.
CITY MANAGER SULLIvAN: Bonita.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: We haven't annexed that.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: The State law reouires•that you
cannot waive that.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, if there is no objection we can ask
the Manager to write a letter, it won't do any harm to find
out.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I move that the City Menoger be, author-
ized to writes letter, end find out what the score is.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Is there a second.
COUNCILMAN HART: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: All in favor cf the motion make it known
by saying aye.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: A letter
M4C3 MATTHEWS: A letter asking if they would reconsider
allowing him to serve.
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COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Do you have the permission of Mr. Dyster.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: No, we better ask him first.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Well, I certainly wouldn't vote for e
thing like that until the person concerned gave his per-
mission because you ere putting the man on the spot.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: With Mr. Dyster's permission do you
permit that I write a letter.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: All in favor of the motion say aye. UN-
ANIMOUS. Opposed. Carried, so ordered.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Can we go back to this Hotel for a
minute. In addition to the letter that will be published
in' the paper, suppose that we have the City Manager write s
personalized letter to each religious order in town asking
for their support.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Would you want it to all organizations
thet might be interested.
'COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Get them ell in.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: All Civic organizations.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr. Mayor, on a problem like thet I
don't think it should be any particular organization, club
or anything else, it should be addressed to ell those in-
cluding the residents of National City. Surely the residents
are primarily interested in that preposition as much as
any of the individual group of people are. Pick out
certain groups of people, that's not Democretio Government.
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MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, I think our open letter in the paper
can express that. An open letter to the citizens of
National City, and then these other letters can go directly
to the heeds of the different organizations. Double action.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: The thing I don't want to give the
impression, Mr. Mayor, is this. We have responsibilities
as representatives of the people of National City end you
can't close your eyes to it. We have certain authority, we
have an Attorney to guide us as far as the law'is,concerned.
This Council hes taken definite action on that proposition.
Do we have to go out end appeal to a certain group in this
City to come to our aid. What kind of representatives are
we, what kind of law makers and policy makers are we.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Thank you.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Public cooperation, Mr. Clarke, is
sometimes worth all the laws, that
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It is still the people's government and
they should be able to help. I think that they will be
glad to help. Any further diecus'sion. No objection these
communications can be filed. Is there enything else from
the, Manager.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: I only have two items to report.
One is, as you recall sometime we made an application for
en option for ell the tax deeded property in National City
and that is now finally for November 21st. You may
have noticed that there wes brief account in tho press of
•
the c?teoilo:e"%. with Mr. Camp bell, Weneger of the City
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of San Diego on the matter of sewage disposal. The result
of the conference, I won't go into ell details of it, but
the result of the conference was the conclusion of the City
of San Diego and the City of National City end the County to
jointly draw up a master plan of sewage disposal having to
do with drainage basin end not troet Paradise Hills or any
other area as a separate isolated item. Because of the
annexation expectancy both to the City of San Diego end the
City of Netional city, the feet that the County has asked
to
the City of National City informally/consider the disposal
for Sir ing Vglley sewage that we should have an overall plan
of sewage disposal and not just take one isolated item. That
agreement was made between the Managers end that will go
forward with a master plan so that any'sewage disposal
could be treated in view of the drainage basin.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: If you haven't got too much more
business, this is Halloween, I would like to go out and
scare somebody tonight.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Would the Council care to go on record by
any chance opposing Proposition B. Have you ell studied
it? And discussed it? That is the gambling proposition,
end I think we have had a case of that in National City.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Mr, Mayor, I don't believe, of course,
I'm speaking personally now understand, but I don't believe
as one.member of this Council that we s
hhh
��ould go on any for
or against any controversary es fa'?pe9) e are concerned.
They have the privilege of voting for cr against such a
thing. I would not be a part of axtress'.rg uyself one way
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or another to the people in that direction.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I think Mr. Clarke is right. I am
going to vote "no".
298
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Any other business to come before the
Council. If not. I would like to find out what happened
• to the Fire Building. Are we going to go ahead and build a
new Fire Hall.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: I will attempt to bring the Council_
up to date on all matters pertaining to the Fire Station.
At the next meeting I expect to present the details. I
have the proposed Architect's contract. Mr. Warner has
•
gone over it. There are two or three corrections to be
made and then we are ready to advertise for bids• The
matter of the corner of 12th and D. which you et ono time
•
considered purchasing, or rather 16th and D. I had a
conversation with Mr. Dawson concerning the property and
he suggested that inasmuch as the Council had not felt that
VD
the: price which they wanted, $10,000.00 was suitable for
purchase that we possibly would be willing to make an offer.
I explained to Mr. Dawson that we were not in the real estate
•
bargaining business but that i would ask to have an appraisal
made, which I did, I informed Mr. Dawson of the amount of
the appraisal which was 1$4,256.00 on the land only. Mr.
Dawson, as you may remember, jointly with his wife,has a
lot, a 25 foot lot at 19th & A next to a 40 foot parcel of
• property we recently acquired an option to purchase the
County tax interest. They have at tines talked about the
possibility of a partial trade for the 40•feet and the
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moving\of the building on the site to that area. Mr. Dawson
was not ready to say that he would or would not be interest..
ed in the amount, but he indicated that he wanted to come
into the office with a suggested trade in view of the
appraisal of $4,250.00. $o that I don't feel that I have
an amount to put before you that Mr. Dawson will accept
but it will be much less than the original 710,000.00 asked.
If the property is such that you feel suitable, that it is
your policy to purchase it, it should be done soon or the
Fire Station will go on the other site. We are ready to
advertise for bids, we will be ready to advertise for bids
after your next meeting.
•MAYOR MATTHEWS: Have they made an offer? The Dawson?
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: No. The Dawson have not countered
with whet they will want to trado in view of the appraisal
of 14,250.00. Their original request was $10,500.00.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: well, I think the offer is getting much
more reasonable now than it was at first. I would like to
strongly urge that we instruct the city Manager to go ahead
with
the negotiations to obtain.thet property. we might as well
• do a good job while we are doing it.
COUNCILMAN CLARKS: Can you do that in a week?
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I think those people are ready.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: Are they going to sell their property in
• a week?
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I think they are ready to sell tomorrow.
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COUNCILMAN CLARKE: We can't put out bids on something we
don't own.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: The location will have to be settled
before the bids are advertised. By your next meeting I will
knew whet Mr. and Mrs, Dawson are willing to do. I went as
far es I could which was to have their property appraised
because Mr. Dawson had contended that it was worth more and
the Council was not willing to pay that price, we are guided
in public business by appraisals end this wasn't an appraisal.
And I think they are seriously considering.
COUNCILMAN HART: Whet is tho size of the lot?
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: 100 feet on D. Avenue by 125.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I don't think thorn is much chance the
Council would let the bids at the next mooting anyway.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: You would be ready to consider ad-
vortisine for bids. We can go ahead as far as the plans ere
concerned et the next meeting and then advertise for bids et
such time es ycu are satisfied .
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I would suCgest that when the plans and
specifications ere ready that we be notified and that they be
'examined legally before--
UATOR MATTHEWS: I would like to see the City Manager go
ahead end get the final cffer and decide definitely et the
next meeting whether we should accept the offer. Because I
think that it would make a much more beautiful building and
I think that we need the property. The first price of
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301
S$10,000.00 was definitely out of reason.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: One matter of policy that is not quite
c]s ar, if the property owner pays for the oil, we are using
City eouipment to oil the streets, is it the wish of the
Council for us to bring the streets to grade before that
oiling is done so that the final job they can go ahead with
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: It would depend on the amount of grad-
ing to be done.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Well, Mr. Mayor, on the matter of.
only
grading, the/time that we do the grading is if we can use
the dirt on another street. For example, it is an advantage
to take the dirt out and move it some place for another
purpose, but the street has to be brought to grade before
the oiling is done. But the grades that have been set on
some of the streets in prior years have not recognized that
automobiles are made the way they now are.
• MAYOR MATTHE"WS: Well, that is what I had reference to.
Shouldn't, in soma cases, the property owners all get to-
gether and turn their money in and say here 1s the money for
the oil to oil the streets, and I think it is to the City's
advantage instead of going ahead and oiling the streets to
be sure it is brought to grade before we oil.
ATTORNEY WARNER: Mr. Mayor, grades are something that
McClure end I have been battling around with for several
months, and he asked me tonight if I could meet with him
•
Thursday, and not only go into the grades but also the
possibilities of the 1911 Act.
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302
• COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: While we are on the subject of streets,
I happened to drive over a street today that had been rolled
and 1 am probably the'only one that did, but it -was a smooth
job, and I think there is still some argument whether the
roller should be used or not. At the same time, I was out
on the hill et Palm valley, I am not an engineer in any sense
• of the word, I don't know how much oil goes into a street,
but it seems tc me that there isn't enough oil going into
that mix. I understand there is quite an argument about
how much oil does go into a miX. I wonder 1f we couldn't
take a street in the town fairly well established and take
particular blocks that have used various mixes and see which
one stands up the better and avoid a lot of argument about it.
Out on the hill today they used ouite a lot of dirt and oil
mixed, but it doesn't look like much to me but it may look
better when it is down, but there is no point in chiseling
a little oil.
b
i CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: We have now ordered soil toe* now
that we ere nearly through with the oiling season. I didn't
^� know that we weren't doing soil testa.- The mixture of oil
with differents kinds cf soil acts very differently. end I
know that you ere right. Mr. Curry celled it to my attent-
ion. I have been cut making street inspections and found
• thet some of the streets were not doing well st ell with a
particular mix, one mix with one street will go one way and
with another type another way, so thet we haven't been
making soil tests but we ere now making soil tests, at
least they !site been ordered, so thet we won't mix oil im-
properly.
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COUNCILMAN CARRIGLN: Is the Street Department using this
roller now on the streets or is that still a bond of con-
tention.
CITY MAN!?GSR SULLIVAN: As far es I know they ere using it.
COUNCILMAN CLLRKE: Well, Mr. Mayor, I am glad to see some-
• body else bringing out these things. I've eouawked my head
off up here about the condition of our streets using the
roller, so they finally get around to seeing things the_way
I saw it, and as far as the mix Mr. Carrigan mentioned it is
not the color of oil, oiled streets usually look black but
most of the streets they have been oiling are brown. As I
stated in a previous meeting, the first good rain we get we
•
won't have anything on there. For instance I can refer you
to the section they recently got through oiling on Grove.
-I' was down there the other Sunday, there are chuck holes 1n
that thing already. Dirt, nothing but dirt. And they have
been using these heavy fire trucks to roll dawn this cil
that they heve been applying to the streets. They claim
that is a good system. I still have to be shown, and I
still think that little toy roller we got is not half heavy
- enough to roll down the condition cf soils that we have in
this community. We put time, leoor, materiel on doing the
street. I am sorry to have to admit it, but I see things,
and I speak es I find, end honestly I am not of any
of those jobs that have bean done. It is no criticism to-
wards any particular individual. it is just the materiel,
the method that we heve of fixing our streets. I don't'
believe it is good enough.
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• COUNCILMAN HART: Mr. Meyor, I don't believe we are in a
position right now to go to the expense of buying a new
roller. Maybe if we used a little more oil.
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COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: On this particular street I would say
that the roller was large enough for that. Speaking of a
small roller, I don't know how small it is, but this was a
nice smooth job,'it was curbed nicely. It was a nice
smooth job much better than I have seen. just from that, I
think there should be specific Instructions for every job.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Mr. Mayor, I rm not an authority on how
much a roller should weigh, but I have heard it said that
you could easily use a roller that was too heavy for this
type of work es well as using one that is too light, depend-
ing on the soil that you ere using the roller on, the con-
dition of the street, and so on. In other words, take a
heavy one and just roll this oil, this is soft pavement we
have here and rolled out and spoil the effects of the roll-
ing: I would like to have some recommendation from someone
that, has had experience with this work end who can say as
to whet type of roller, weight and so on to be used for this
work.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I don't know anything about that. The
only thing I know is that the streets that are rolled are a
thousand percent better than those that aren't.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: I haven't made any street inspect-
ions this week, so I don't know.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I have one more thing on streets, Mr.
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,Mayor, That Is, what is the City's policy, the City
Meneger'telked about using this dirt in grading for other
streets. In some cases there is a fill required. Is the
City going to the expense of hauling dirt up to these streets
to make the fill.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: If ,that is what it takes to make a
good street, than haul it in and fill it.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Well, I agree with you, providing It isn't
too much of a f111.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Most all we have had, Mr. Curry, so
far have been where we needed dirt one piece to be moved to.
a bad spot in another for drainage. For example down on
20th and "'A" we moved some dirt from one street to another
where we needed to move it out from where it was tc control
drainage and needed to move it in to another to control
drainage. people down there have ell been putting in curbs.
Theoretically the streets should be graded by the property
owners prior to oiling. In order to get drainage control
for,sure, it wasn't very man hours involved to get the street
Improved, I authorized the moving of the dirt.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: That is very good. I think the Council
approves of that. In other words do the job right regard-'
less of who pays for it, bocause after ell, indirectly the
people ere paying for it, they ere going to use it. The
people in Neficnal City are going to be using the streets
and they don't want streets with no drainage and full of
water, so I don't believe there would be vary much complaint
in using that dirt. And we can use all the dirt, there is
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always a place to put the dirt I am sure,
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: There As a problem I have right now.
There is a man net to build s building where the street is''
below grade, it is in bed condition. it will,impair his
structure if it isn't filled. He wants permission tc fill
the street. Ha doesn't mind,movins the dirt, but he hates
to pay Mr. Greenberg 03.00 a loed for the dirt, and he has
located -a etreot whore we have a bank that needs to be
moved in order to get down to grade and he has asked whether
I would give him permission to move the dirt out of the street
where we need it down and the street where we need it up. I
gave him permission because it doesn't cost us anything and
we get two streets graded thereby.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: I think that is good business.
I8th Street is completed.
I see that
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Just for the sand, we have to welt
30 days.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: We discussed three or four other possible
streets to do next and 18th was chosen because of the
possibility of traffic. I would like to find out whet your
policy is on the next 'item for the Street Department.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: :6th Street.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: we ere going to meet with the people of
Lincoln Acres and wa hops to have Paradise Hills and I think
that we should prepare our front door, which we discussed
two meetings back. So you say that 16th Street is next.
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• CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN.: 16th Street is almost ready and we
have gasoline tax money for 16th Streets. and I am going to
start moving in dirt to fill and fix the culverts. As you
remember, there are two low places one at "N" and one beyond
Palm. The Engineer has the profile neaply ready. If we
open 16th Street then we are going to be able to do some-
• thing with 18th. Then we will have through streets to
Paradise Hills, not only Paradise Hills but to that general
area eaatr but until we open 16th Street I don't think we
ought to proceed with 18th.
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MAYOR MATTHEWS: We could proceed with picking out the deeds.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Oh, yes. As far as the right of way
is concerned, but I think we ought to wait working on 18th
Street until we have 16th Street opened as a travel road.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: When is the meeting with Lincoln Acres.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: The loth of November, Friday night,
at 8:00 o'clock.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: If possible, let's all make that. Be sure
and keep that night open.
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: There will be another Council meeting
before then.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Yes,
COUNCILMAN CLARKE: On that 16th Street opening, Mr. Mayor,
have you noticed that sign put up by the Water Company.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Yes. I think the Water Company is aware
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• that 16th Street is going to be improved.
COUNCILMAN CLAM: They will have to have a new water main.
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MAYOR MATTHEWS: Well, yes, they will have to have a new
main there. I have needled out Nutter everytime I see him
about those redwood stakes that ere out there.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Thoy ere planning to put in a main.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: It breaks on the average of ten or fifteen
times a year nr more.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: I can't see too much advantage in opening
16th Street until such time as wo do something about Palm.
You are running out onto a narrow street there an unimproved
street. 16th Street to Palm.
• CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: To Allegheny. Go on beyond Palm.
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MAYOR MATTHZWS: I think anything we can do to encourage
number of
more pooplc to come into National City by opening any/streets
why I think it is our duty tc do it.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: I haven't heard whether the Council
has had e prior policy on the opening of Palm but I have
gone along with the idea that you did went Palm widened end
opened to the South. The engineering is now done for the
opening of Palm to the South and wo ere ready to stake it
to make temporary roads through Palm Valley playground so
that that street will be determined prior to any improve-
ment in that area. Ne need some additional easemants on
Palm, we don't have all of thec,. Wo have been getting them
gradually.
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COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Will you bring.up the Ordinance on
bees.
CITY MANAOSR SULLIVAN: I will be glad tc. Would you like
me to explain the background. Mr. Mayor and ra mbers of the
Council. A petition was brought to the office of the Manager
about a brown liquid that was appearing air bourne on a
• number of houses neer 12th and "D" end so the man who
brought In the petition accompanied me and I went over and
inspected and found that on the white stucco there was, there
were considerable number of brown spots and it was reported.
that the washing in the neighborhood had to be redone e
number of times because of the sir bourne liquid. The pet-
itioner thought thet it was probably from the cleaning plant
on Naticnel Avenue, so I instructed the Fire Dep'rtment to
make an investigation of whet it was end they had it analyzed
• and found it to he the excretion from bees, so I notified all
of tho potit:onors in the neighborhood of where the beehives
were and they wore in the flight patttterna�of the bees and
where it wets, whet it was, and informedh/that there was nc
Ordinance thet I was able to find that prevented the man
from keeping bees, but I did give them his address end the
number of hives. Subsequently they want something done
about it. We do not 'now have an Ordinance which will move
into action on the matter cf keeping bees. If you would
like to refer it to the City Attorney to find some way of
stopping this decided nuisance to the leurdry and to the
white stucco wells, I thnrk it might he sutteb:e because it
Is a puzzling problem to find c why to stop the teas. It
happened sometime ago. I he-2 '.,can over e rao:bh, maybe as
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long as six weeks ego, but we had no Ordinance and no
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particular relief et that time.
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CCUNCILMAN CLARKE: Since you brine that up, I would like
to state that the people on 8th Street east of Highland
are complaining about flowers and shrubs dying. There is
something floating through the air which locks like frost
on the shrubbery and flowers.
CITY MANAGER SULLIVAN: Cn 8th Street.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: Do you want to refer that to the Attorney.
Do you went a Bee Ordinance.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: As long as you ere the subject of this
nature, I had ono called to my attention yesterday es to
ducks, and I couldn't give them any answer en it. These
• ducks would wake them up et 8:00 o'clock in the morning.
What can the City do about it? It happened the people were,
raising ducks in the yard adjoining them and the ducks get
up very early in fact they are up pretty well ell night,
and these people were complaining that they could not get
their proper sleep and whet can be done about it. And I
• don't know how much noise is allowed end so on, possibly
the Attorney can give us the information on that.
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MAYOR MATTHEWS: Make that item No. 8.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: Can we adjourn now. I would like to
get out and scare people.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: There is a rooster that crows near my
house. Does anybody like chicken.
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0 MAYOR MATTHEWS. Is there a motion before the house.
COUNCILMAN CARRIGAN: I move that we adjourn.
COUNCILMAN CURRY: Second.
MAYOR MATTHEWS: we are adjourned.
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